Orig paint vs repaint and value
Moderators: 93Cobra#2771, SPEEDFREEK, 1993cobra
Orig paint vs repaint and value
Wanted to see everyones opinion on this topic. Having sold a few cobras the question I have heard the most is does it have the orig paint?
Now I can see this question on the lower mile cars but at what mileage would it probably be unlikely that a 21 year old car still retains the orig paint.
Second part of the question as far as value goes is a cobra with the original paint (but showing signs of age, i.e. crows feat, feathering, cracking, dullness a combination of some or all) worth more than a cobra with the same miles but a fresh paint job?
I ask this because when you tell people these cobras have been painted it seems to throw a red flag, people think its been in an accident or your covering up something. But the flip side is if you have a cobra with the original paint and it shows its age they will say it "needs paint"
TGIF
Now I can see this question on the lower mile cars but at what mileage would it probably be unlikely that a 21 year old car still retains the orig paint.
Second part of the question as far as value goes is a cobra with the original paint (but showing signs of age, i.e. crows feat, feathering, cracking, dullness a combination of some or all) worth more than a cobra with the same miles but a fresh paint job?
I ask this because when you tell people these cobras have been painted it seems to throw a red flag, people think its been in an accident or your covering up something. But the flip side is if you have a cobra with the original paint and it shows its age they will say it "needs paint"
TGIF
93 Cobra Teal/Gray #3223 -Stock (Borla catback)
*various other 93 cobras, #15, #4105, #2587, #539
#2381, #4724, #298, #1153 RIP
*various other 93 cobras, #15, #4105, #2587, #539
#2381, #4724, #298, #1153 RIP
- escogt
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Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
For me, I prefer original paint. If it needs a paint job, I'd like to have it done on my terms. Like my '85GT.
As far as value, I still believe that an original paint car is worth more than a re-painted car. Even if that original paint is not what it used to be. This is just my opinion of course.
As far as value, I still believe that an original paint car is worth more than a re-painted car. Even if that original paint is not what it used to be. This is just my opinion of course.
- 1986Browns
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Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
I agree 100% with all of this ^escogt wrote:For me, I prefer original paint. If it needs a paint job, I'd like to have it done on my terms. Like my '85GT.
As far as value, I still believe that an original paint car is worth more than a re-painted car. Even if that original paint is not what it used to be. This is just my opinion of course.
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Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
Origional paint 100%
2004 svt Cobra Mystichrome Convertible STOCK
1967 mustang Coupe STOCK Red/Black - SOLD
1993 Cobra STOCK Red/Black #1264 SOLD
[youtube2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2pl2ye ... e=youtu.be [/youtube2]
1967 mustang Coupe STOCK Red/Black - SOLD
1993 Cobra STOCK Red/Black #1264 SOLD
[youtube2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2pl2ye ... e=youtu.be [/youtube2]
Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
Original paint can be buffed and polished so original is always better as a collector, however, I think it kinda depends on the paint job too. If a car gets a paint job, but they don't remove things like trim, mirrors, ect... Then obviously it would degrade the value.
Cobra #11
Sunday driver in fair weather.
"Passion: there are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
Sunday driver in fair weather.
"Passion: there are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
IMO nearly everyone would prefer original paint on these cars, even with the inevitable imperfections that come with 21-year-old paint. Original paint that has been very well cared for and still looks fresh obviously increases the value.
For cars that show more wear and tear in the paint to the point of needing a paint job, the only worthwhile way to go IMO is a high-quality shop that will re-paint it properly (i.e taking the panels down to the bare metal, removal of all trim, lights, etc., etc.). As Poobah mentioned, a cheaper paint job shows and only hurts the value.
For cars that show more wear and tear in the paint to the point of needing a paint job, the only worthwhile way to go IMO is a high-quality shop that will re-paint it properly (i.e taking the panels down to the bare metal, removal of all trim, lights, etc., etc.). As Poobah mentioned, a cheaper paint job shows and only hurts the value.
In certain circumstances, esp. higher mileage cars with paint showing its age, I think a fresh paint job could increase the value over leaving the orig. paint. The problem is the cost of a high-quality re-paint is probably only worth it to an owner that is planning on keeping the car for awhile. It wouldn't increase the value enough to re-paint it properly only to turn around and sell it.JohnLynch wrote: Second part of the question as far as value goes is a cobra with the original paint (but showing signs of age, i.e. crows feat, feathering, cracking, dullness a combination of some or all) worth more than a cobra with the same miles but a fresh paint job?
This can be avoided by taking lots of pics of the car prior to and during the re-paint. I've been to many car shows where the owners have before, during and after pics that show the car wasn't painted due to an accident and also showing the attention to detail of the shop that did the paint job. I took these kinds of pics when I had my '89 GT painted and the non-original paint was not an issue when I sold it.JohnLynch wrote:I ask this because when you tell people these cobras have been painted it seems to throw a red flag, people think its been in an accident or your covering up something.
03 COBRA Black with VMP
93 COBRA Black #3754 (RIP)
89 GT Black/Scarlet Red (SOLD)
86 GT Bright Red/Gray (SOLD)
93 COBRA Black #3754 (RIP)
89 GT Black/Scarlet Red (SOLD)
86 GT Bright Red/Gray (SOLD)
Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
Slo good point. My son is having the front bumper wrap repainted at a body shop in Charlotte where Hendricks Museum gets their work done. The painter went over the car and of course said Teal is probably the hardest color to match ever. He did say he doesn't just mix and shoot he tests re-tints and gets it as close as he can. In any case he said the bumper wrap would match the front fender much better than it does now. Plastic just doesn't age like steel thus the discoloration. He also touches up Yenkos and all the top shelf Hendrick cars so repainting if done right doesn't seem to bother Rick so it aint gonna bother me LOL!!!Just quoting an expert painter. Once the paint is finished and detailed inside Ill share the results along with pics of the headliner issue. Fighting RSD Oldernu
Last edited by oldernu on Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2nd owner 40 Chevy - myself and two sons came home from hospital in this car, One grandson and one grand-daughter have ridden in car.
1st owner 72 Cougar XR7 - first new car for wife and I
1st owner 1994 Bronco XLT - cant part with the gas hog for some reason
93 Teal Cobra just purchased 1-2014
1st owner 72 Cougar XR7 - first new car for wife and I
1st owner 1994 Bronco XLT - cant part with the gas hog for some reason
93 Teal Cobra just purchased 1-2014
- escogt
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Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
Thanks Matt!!!1986Browns wrote:I agree 100% with all of this ^escogt wrote:For me, I prefer original paint. If it needs a paint job, I'd like to have it done on my terms. Like my '85GT.
As far as value, I still believe that an original paint car is worth more than a re-painted car. Even if that original paint is not what it used to be. This is just my opinion of course.
Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
I bet a ton of our cars have been "touched up"... If it's done right you would never know.
1993 Black / Black Cobra #3929. V3 with a couple bolt-ons - 63,000 miles and counting....
Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
What a great question this is.....what's more desirable (.....valuable) to a collector? preserved and original or repainted and restored?
When I was younger, I was all about speed, racing, modifying, etc. But here's my current $.02:
Unrestored, original cars that are well preserved sell for significantly more than an identical, but perfectly restored cars. The difference is in the range of 20-40% more for the "original, unrestored, well preserved car. This is true of cars in any price range: Corvettes, Porsches, Mustangs, Packards, Ferraris, Studebakers, AC Cobras.....you name it.
Here's a link showing a great example (in this case 35% more valuable for unrestored....especially considering how ratty the unrestored car looks!):
http://barnfinds.com/pristine-or-patina/
Here's some first hand info.......10 years ago I bought a beautifully restored 1967 car. A short time earlier, another man I've spoken with bought a very similar original, unrestored but well preserved one owner car (same year, make and model, but not as desirable a color as mine) from the same individual for 25% more than what I paid for the restored car. Today the same difference in value holds true....or maybe even a little more. Part of the reason for this is that my car has aged and is no longer quite as beautiful as it was 10 years ago....even though I've only driven it 5000 miles in 10 years. My car's no longer freshly "restored" and it's certainly not "original" either. It's somewhere in between.....in a no-mans land. But it's still worth more than what I paid for it. As long as the other man has continued to use the car gently and preserve it well, his car has continued to gain patina (wear that's consistent with age and usage) and more value.
Some might say there's a difference based on price range or age, but once a car reaches collectible status, the idea is the same for a collector. The ideal is a "wrapper" car.....one that hasn't been used at all, and has been exquisitely preserved exactly as it was when new. Originality is a "must" in either case. The more a car deviates from original, the lower the value. Very few cars are ever preserved as wrappers, so they're the most desirable, rarest and most valuable. The next best thing is one that has as little use and wear as possible. The less use and wear, the higher the value. Therefore, "lightly used" is better and more valuable than "heavily used"......especially if use and wear are excessive for the age of the car. Wear that's consistent with age and amount of use is o.k., but the less, the better and more valuable.
Documentation is obviously important. The more, the better and more valuable. Documentation the car isn't a fake or clone. Documentation of the car's originality......that it hasn't been "reconstituted" from a bunch of NOS or reproduction parts. Done through matching numbers on major components and correct date codes on smaller parts and assemblies. Maintenance and service records, etc. Documentation that the wear is consistent with the amount of usage the car's had. Remember the old trick of checking brake pedal wear to see if it's consistent with what the odometer says to see if it's rolled over?, how many times?, has it been turned back? ....that's the idea. Documentation of the car's use......anything that confirms the mileage shown is accurate. Official inspections, etc.. Again, the more the better....part of the reason I keep a log of gas fillups.
As they say, they're only original once, so keep 'em that way. Consider this: Our '93 Cobras are 21 years old today......some day they'll be 30....40.....even 50 years old. What they'll be worth then will depend on the same factors which determine the values of the older cars today. People who will appreciate '93 Cobras in the future (as we love 'em today) will want to look at an old car and imagine (or remember) what is was like living in 1993 and to enjoy a brand new Mustang Cobra. The closer the car fits their ideal image, the more valuable. To most collectors the knowledge that something isn't right (or original or has been repainted), even if it looks right, devalues the experience. Best is unused and perfectly preserved, next is lightly used / worn but correct, last is heavily worn compared to the amount of use with incorrect / non-original parts. Somewhere between the extremes are the perfectly / freshly restored, repainted cars.
P.S. Quoting: "I bet a ton of our cars have been "touched up"... If it's done right you would never know."
Actually it's quick and easy to tell if / where a car's been repainted or touched up if you have a paint meter to measure thickness. Many serious collectors have 'em so they know if a car really has original paint the seller claims. Factory paint's different than a respray.
When I was younger, I was all about speed, racing, modifying, etc. But here's my current $.02:
Unrestored, original cars that are well preserved sell for significantly more than an identical, but perfectly restored cars. The difference is in the range of 20-40% more for the "original, unrestored, well preserved car. This is true of cars in any price range: Corvettes, Porsches, Mustangs, Packards, Ferraris, Studebakers, AC Cobras.....you name it.
Here's a link showing a great example (in this case 35% more valuable for unrestored....especially considering how ratty the unrestored car looks!):
http://barnfinds.com/pristine-or-patina/
Here's some first hand info.......10 years ago I bought a beautifully restored 1967 car. A short time earlier, another man I've spoken with bought a very similar original, unrestored but well preserved one owner car (same year, make and model, but not as desirable a color as mine) from the same individual for 25% more than what I paid for the restored car. Today the same difference in value holds true....or maybe even a little more. Part of the reason for this is that my car has aged and is no longer quite as beautiful as it was 10 years ago....even though I've only driven it 5000 miles in 10 years. My car's no longer freshly "restored" and it's certainly not "original" either. It's somewhere in between.....in a no-mans land. But it's still worth more than what I paid for it. As long as the other man has continued to use the car gently and preserve it well, his car has continued to gain patina (wear that's consistent with age and usage) and more value.
Some might say there's a difference based on price range or age, but once a car reaches collectible status, the idea is the same for a collector. The ideal is a "wrapper" car.....one that hasn't been used at all, and has been exquisitely preserved exactly as it was when new. Originality is a "must" in either case. The more a car deviates from original, the lower the value. Very few cars are ever preserved as wrappers, so they're the most desirable, rarest and most valuable. The next best thing is one that has as little use and wear as possible. The less use and wear, the higher the value. Therefore, "lightly used" is better and more valuable than "heavily used"......especially if use and wear are excessive for the age of the car. Wear that's consistent with age and amount of use is o.k., but the less, the better and more valuable.
Documentation is obviously important. The more, the better and more valuable. Documentation the car isn't a fake or clone. Documentation of the car's originality......that it hasn't been "reconstituted" from a bunch of NOS or reproduction parts. Done through matching numbers on major components and correct date codes on smaller parts and assemblies. Maintenance and service records, etc. Documentation that the wear is consistent with the amount of usage the car's had. Remember the old trick of checking brake pedal wear to see if it's consistent with what the odometer says to see if it's rolled over?, how many times?, has it been turned back? ....that's the idea. Documentation of the car's use......anything that confirms the mileage shown is accurate. Official inspections, etc.. Again, the more the better....part of the reason I keep a log of gas fillups.
As they say, they're only original once, so keep 'em that way. Consider this: Our '93 Cobras are 21 years old today......some day they'll be 30....40.....even 50 years old. What they'll be worth then will depend on the same factors which determine the values of the older cars today. People who will appreciate '93 Cobras in the future (as we love 'em today) will want to look at an old car and imagine (or remember) what is was like living in 1993 and to enjoy a brand new Mustang Cobra. The closer the car fits their ideal image, the more valuable. To most collectors the knowledge that something isn't right (or original or has been repainted), even if it looks right, devalues the experience. Best is unused and perfectly preserved, next is lightly used / worn but correct, last is heavily worn compared to the amount of use with incorrect / non-original parts. Somewhere between the extremes are the perfectly / freshly restored, repainted cars.
P.S. Quoting: "I bet a ton of our cars have been "touched up"... If it's done right you would never know."
Actually it's quick and easy to tell if / where a car's been repainted or touched up if you have a paint meter to measure thickness. Many serious collectors have 'em so they know if a car really has original paint the seller claims. Factory paint's different than a respray.
Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
Really nice post! Great read.
Cobra #11
Sunday driver in fair weather.
"Passion: there are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
Sunday driver in fair weather.
"Passion: there are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
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Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
I've seen brand new fords with up to three coats of paint . Base, clear, base, clear, base, clear. And seen lots of factory ford paint defects.
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Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
X 2POOBLAH wrote:Really nice post! Great read.
2004 svt Cobra Mystichrome Convertible STOCK
1967 mustang Coupe STOCK Red/Black - SOLD
1993 Cobra STOCK Red/Black #1264 SOLD
[youtube2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2pl2ye ... e=youtu.be [/youtube2]
1967 mustang Coupe STOCK Red/Black - SOLD
1993 Cobra STOCK Red/Black #1264 SOLD
[youtube2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2pl2ye ... e=youtu.be [/youtube2]
Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
Hey, thanks for that info 1993Cobra! I'd never have suspected it, but I guess it makes sense: "If at first you don't succeed,....."1993cobra wrote:I've seen brand new fords with up to three coats of paint . Base, clear, base, clear, base, clear. And seen lots of factory ford paint defects.
- 93Cobra#2771
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Re: Orig paint vs repaint and value
As have I. For some reason, the teal cars had a time getting out of the factory with good paint.1993cobra wrote:I've seen brand new fords with up to three coats of paint . Base, clear, base, clear, base, clear. And seen lots of factory ford paint defects.
Short story:
Buddy of mine bought a teal car new off the dealer lot in 93. In the second year of daily driving it, as he was leaving one winter morning (temps in the 20's), he heard a loud pop. Couldn't figure out what it was.
That evening, he figured it out. The paint on the roof actually cracked from the rear quarter window all the way to the a pillar on the other side.
He was still under the 3year/36k warranty. Took to ford, they had never seen anything like it. We knew the paint was thick on the car, as there was evidence of drips that had collected on the bottom lip of the hatch, under the fender lips, etc.
Anyhow, he and I are both very particular about cars. We were worried the Ford dealer, when they did the repaint, wouldn't tape off/remove everything correctly. So, we stripped the car prior to taking it to the dealer. Quarter windows, moulding, I'm talking everything. Even put old wheels on it and everything, and trailered the car there.
During the removal process, we found a chip under a piece of the upper window moulding. The chip was to the metal. There were 7 layers of paint. Yes, seven layers. It was unbelievable.
The Ford dealer ended up having to send it out to be media blasted (walnut shells), as the paint was simply on there too thick. And, of course, that is why it cracked. It was on very thick. It took them over a month to get it done, but it was actually done very well.
My car was produced 5 cars down the line from his. Mine showed evidence of heavy paint, but not as heavy as his.
So, there are cars out there with factory thick paint on them.
Window Sticker Reproduction Guy