A starter question - help

Technical Tips, Tricks and Q & A
Georgia Snake
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Columbus GA

A starter question - help

Post by Georgia Snake »

I have been having an on going starter problem on my 1992 Convertible 5.0. I am currently on its 4th starter since last November. Here is its history.

The first starter that failed last November had been on my Convertible since 2009. It had gradually gotten more harsh in the sound of the bendix engagement until it failed to engage the flywheel at all. When I removed that starter it inspected as a bad starter, the bendix was slightly chewed and the bendix shaft had play going into the end cap. So bad starter and I replaced it.

The second starter started my engine 2 times before failing to engage the flywheel. Same exact failure. It seemed as though it was barely contacting the ring gear. I replaced it with a third starter.

The Third starter, once installed, worked and sounded normal for the first few starts. Beginning with the fifth start it began to become harsh in the sound of the bendix engagement just like the previous starters. On the 9th start the starter failed in the same way as the others. These starters were Autozone lifetime warranted starters.

Last week a friend gave me a used Ford starter he had laying around as an experiment. It looked slightly different than the Autozone starters. The motor section was a little shorter and overall it just looked more heavy duty. That starter has lasted a bit over a week. Three days ago it too did not engage the flywheel. Until today it had missed engaging the flywheel 4 or 5 times. The difference was that when the Autozone starters missed the engagement that was it for them. This starter would start my engine once I cycled the switch to off and did another start attempt. Today, this Ford starter also failed completely, no engagement of the flywheel.

I have done all the inspections and trouble shooting I can think of. Everything checks normal electrically. I and 2 others have visually inspected the ring gear teeth. The teeth inspect fine. There is the occasional chipped tooth. Nothing but a very small chip and nothing consecutive. I have checked for the fore and aft movement of the crankshaft and that is normal.

My Convertible is a 1992 and the literature out there says it should have the more Chevy looking starter but I have owned it for 18 years and it never has. It has the 1991 and older type starter. Is there a difference in a starter from a 5.0 with a manual vs an automatic transmission? I have had conflicting info on this question when actually talking to someone.

If it comes to it, I do have a replacement stock flywheel for the engine. I also have a replacement clutch, throwout bearing, rear main seal, and the upgraded front bearing cover for the T-5 transmission with the steel sleeve for the input shaft. I just want to make sure what my problem really is before I go to the trouble and expense to replace the major parts as I cannot do the job myself for several reasons

So, anyone with any helpful info, please help with some useful advice.
User avatar
1993cobra
Site Admin
Posts: 4537
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Location: Texas of course!
Contact:

Re: A starter question - help

Post by 1993cobra »

maybe the dowels were lost when you had the clutch work done and the bellhousing is not properly aligned? how does the flywheel teeth look? are you getting full voltage to the starter?
Georgia Snake
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Columbus GA

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Georgia Snake »

For what it is worth. Just pulled the Ford starter off. It inspected as ok and serviceable. I reinstalled it using the shim I bought. So far, 12 good starts with no issue. The Ford starter is its 4th starter that failed yesterday. I have done all the electrical checks and they all passed. The Flywheel teeth look ok and serviceable. I inspected them myself as well as 2 other guys and we came to the same conclusion about the ring gear teeth being ok. We will see over the next while, whatever that turns out to be, if the shim did some magic somehow.
Georgia Snake
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Columbus GA

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Georgia Snake »

So much for the shim concept. I just took it for a ride and had to do a roll start. Starter failed to engage the flywheel again.
User avatar
1993cobra
Site Admin
Posts: 4537
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Location: Texas of course!
Contact:

Re: A starter question - help

Post by 1993cobra »

are you getting full battery voltage at the starter?
User avatar
Romo93
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:21 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Romo93 »

1993cobra wrote:are you getting full battery voltage at the starter?
Have you replaced your starter solenoid? Or a bad connection, ground.....
1993 Black / Black Cobra #3929. V3 with a couple bolt-ons - 63,000 miles and counting....
Georgia Snake
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Columbus GA

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Georgia Snake »

All the electrical checks pass. The solenoid mounted on the inner fender if fine and checks. It was replaced and was new last November. It replaced a known good solenoid back in November but I changed it because it was cheap. Now I have 2 known good solenoids. This is not an electrical problem. This is a mechanical problem.
User avatar
Romo93
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:21 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Romo93 »

Georgia Snake wrote:All the electrical checks pass. The solenoid mounted on the inner fender if fine and checks. It was replaced and was new last November. It replaced a known good solenoid back in November but I changed it because it was cheap. Now I have 2 known good solenoids. This is not an electrical problem. This is a mechanical problem.
A stretch but maybe your ignition switch on the steering column?
1993 Black / Black Cobra #3929. V3 with a couple bolt-ons - 63,000 miles and counting....
Georgia Snake
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Columbus GA

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Georgia Snake »

Ignition switch was replace this last summer for other reasons. It is not an electrical problem. I need some new ideas on some sort of mechanical problem I may not have yet thought of.
User avatar
1993cobra
Site Admin
Posts: 4537
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Location: Texas of course!
Contact:

Re: A starter question - help

Post by 1993cobra »

You say it is a mechanical problem, but a if you are have voltage issues, low voltage could prevent the starter drive from extending fully or fast enough causing damage to the drive gear or flywheel gear which will only get worse. Also just because the solenoid is activating doesn't mean it out allowing full current flow to the starter. Now if it is an alignment problem, you need to be sure you have the correct shouldered bolts, be sure the flywheel isn't damaged, and be sure the alignment dowels aren't missing. If you are not sure take it to a good mechanic, he should be able to figure it out.
User avatar
Romo93
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:21 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Romo93 »

1993cobra wrote:You say it is a mechanical problem, but a if you are have voltage issues, low voltage could prevent the starter drive from extending fully or fast enough causing damage to the drive gear or flywheel gear which will only get worse. Also just because the solenoid is activating doesn't mean it out allowing full current flow to the starter. Now if it is an alignment problem, you need to be sure you have the correct shouldered bolts, be sure the flywheel isn't damaged, and be sure the alignment dowels aren't missing. If you are not sure take it to a good mechanic, he should be able to figure it out.
good advice! :headbang:

What does the car do when it won't turn over? Do you get a single click or multiple or what? I had a similar issue like this and it was the solenoid, the new one I bought was bad from the factory. If you're only getting a clicking sound when turning over, try jumping the solenoid. Have you checked your positive from the starter to your solenoid? Maybe loose? Good luck
1993 Black / Black Cobra #3929. V3 with a couple bolt-ons - 63,000 miles and counting....
Georgia Snake
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Columbus GA

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Georgia Snake »

All the electrical functions have been checked and pass ok. The starter motor turns at its rated rpm to start the engine. The bendix clashes with the flywheel ring gear and does not mesh to turn the engine to start. That is the problem. It is not an electrical problem.
User avatar
1993cobra
Site Admin
Posts: 4537
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Location: Texas of course!
Contact:

Re: A starter question - help

Post by 1993cobra »

Georgia Snake wrote:All the electrical functions have been checked and pass ok. The starter motor turns at its rated rpm to start the engine. The bendix clashes with the flywheel ring gear and does not mesh to turn the engine to start. That is the problem. It is not an electrical problem.
then the problem is one of the following.. the starter, the flywheel, or block bellhousing allignment or any combination of these
User avatar
Romo93
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:21 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Romo93 »

1993cobra wrote:
Georgia Snake wrote:All the electrical functions have been checked and pass ok. The starter motor turns at its rated rpm to start the engine. The bendix clashes with the flywheel ring gear and does not mesh to turn the engine to start. That is the problem. It is not an electrical problem.
then the problem is one of the following.. the starter, the flywheel, or block bellhousing allignment or any combination of these
You probably jacked something up when you took it off-roading through the ditch...... Something is out of alignment!
1993 Black / Black Cobra #3929. V3 with a couple bolt-ons - 63,000 miles and counting....
Georgia Snake
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Columbus GA

Re: A starter question - help

Post by Georgia Snake »

No indication of damage through visual inspection. No indication of the bellhousing being out of place. No looseness of any bolts. No gaps of any of the fitment.
Post Reply